Wednesday, June 19, 2013

A Puzzlement

I have an interesting little puzzle that is driving me crazy. I know I'm a bit obsessive about dogs but I always have been and I don't expect it to change now. I also know that many people aren't all that interested in breeds and to them a dog is a dog. For instance, before Bo went to live in the White House, most people had never heard of Portuguese Water Dogs. Whenever I took one of mine out in public people would ask me what kind of dog he was. My favorite was a man who asked me if Fudge was a Pitbull.  Here's a Pitbull....
Here's Fudge. Do you see a resemblance? When I told him what breed Fudge was, he just shook his head. I'm sure he was convinced that Fudge was a Pitbull.

When Sydney and Mackenzie came to us, they were still in the soft round puppy stage that just looked pretty much like any other puppy. The man that gave them to Rob said they were Beagle and Brittany.
As the girls have grown I've become convinced that they may be part Beagle and part Brittany, but there are some other parts that he didn't mention.  Notice how long their bodies are.
The Beagle standard says:  Back short, muscular and strong. 
The Dachshund standard says: The trunk is long and fully muscled.

See their front legs and feet.
The Beagle standard says: Forelegs straight. Crooked forelegs are a defect.
The Dachshund standard says: The joints of the wrists do not appear absolutely straight. The front feet may be equally inclined a trifle outward.

Sydney has a bit of a Spaniel look to her head and face except for her big floppy ears.
Notice Mac's face.

The Beagle standard says: Muzzle of medium length- straight and square. Skull should be domed, broad and full. Ears set moderately low.
The Dachshund standard says: Head tapers to the tip of the nose. Skull slopes gradually, neither too  broad nor too narrow. Ears set near the top of the head.
The Beagle standard says: Chest deep and broad.
The Dachshund standard says: Breast bone is strongly prominent in front.

The Beagle standard says:
Tail set moderately high, not turned forward over the back.

Syd's tail now curves slightly over her back.

I suspect that the man who bred the girls didn't know his dog breeds very well and what he thought was a Beagle may have actually been a Dachshund. Does any of this matter? Not really. The girls are a hoot and I like their long faces, floppy ears and crooked feet. The long bodies could be something to watch in the future as long bodied dogs can have back problems. They're mixed breed dogs so they'll not be judged on their lack of standard, they'll just be loved for who they are.


Jan said...

I see a lot of lovable mutts today with longer bodies which is puzzling because I always thought the Dachshund long body genes were recessive.

The Life of Riley said...

People often think my Golden Retrievers are Labradors until I explain the differences especially their coat length.

I missed your posts when you got the puppies, but I've always looked at your blog (not knowing what size your puppies are) thinking your puppies had "Jack Russell terrier" traits.

I guess the best way to find more clues is to do a BITSA test (or whatever the US equivalent is) to check their DNA to find out the various breeds in their past, but even if you never find out they are very cute (even with the east-west paws) and both have lovely faces.

STELLA and RORY from Down Under said...

Howdy All, we think you might be right in guessing some Dachsund in them. Whatever they are, they are adorable. Our mum is in love with dogs, all shapes and sizes. Someone asked mum is Rory was a weimaraner once. Take care. No worries, and love, Stella and Rory

Jo's World said...

Maybe its time to get out the Heinz 57 Manual. That should tell us.

They are cuter than cute to me and you can send me Syd if you want to.

Entertaining post, Sue!


Bella Roxy & Macdui said...

What a mystery. People call us scotties anything from Yorkshire Terriers to Westies.

roxy is a bull terrier/Rhodesian Ridgeback but we don't know where the Basset legs came from.

XXXOOO Daisy, Bella & Roxy

Fudge a pitbull....BOL!

rottrover said...

I don't think Ruby is 100 percent rottie. Her snout is very long, and she is much more scent driven than any other rottie I've had. I'm thinking there's a little Doxie or lab in there. I was going to do a DNA test and then thought "who cares?" She's Ruby and she's perfect! Mac and Sydney are becoming beautiful young ladies!

♥♥ The OP Pack ♥♥ said...

Now that you point out all those elements, we think there could be some doxie in there, but as you say, what difference does it really make? They are both very good-looking dogs.

Woos - Phantom, Thunder, Ciara, and Lightning

gMarie said...

But they are so tall. Doxies are generally very short. But Abby has those turned out knees and feet - so.....

That being said, those girls are incredibly beautiful. What joy they must be bringing you. g

ps - yes, Fudge looks like a pitty. It's the white chest and that look in his eyes (you know, when you can see them).

Anonymous said...

I too had been wondering if the man you got the girls from know or didn't tell you there was something else in the mix. Yesterday's post with the ballet foot positions really made my mind up about it, but I was thinking a little basset hound. You make a great case for dachshund, and it makes sense. But I agree with everyone, it doesn't matter, they're adorable and great fun!


Monkey said...

It can be quite a surprise what appears as puppies begin to grow. They are really cute though.

ElleC said...

Unless a person is normal (ie obsessive about dogs), they are completely clueless about dogs. I don't know why there is such a divide between some knowledge and no knowledge at all. I have two Papillon Pomeranian crosses that lean towards looking more like a Pom, but there is obviously something not quite Pom like about them. I have been with my dog and have run into someone with their Pom and they didn't see a difference between their dog and mine. Strange.

The puppies look considerably more muscular than a doxie, so I doubt they will have back issues as long as they stay a healthy weight.

I agree, they are adorable and who really cares what mix they are.

SissySees said...

*I* happen to enjoy breed discussions, so it fascinates me. Isn't there a blood test you could do to determine their family tree? I've pondered it with Sis. While Gg is just a wee JRT, I'm pretty sure Sis has some Foxhound in her... paperwork aside.

Piappies World said...

That's really keen of you to observe those details about the girls/ We do see the Dachshund in them and sure sure make them more adorable to us.

We Piappies are mixed breeds too and we've gotten Piappies Mom confused which breeds could be in our mix.

Piappies Fudgie, Princess, Frappie, Mocha, Sugar, Wai-Max, Wai-Pai & Forgie

Lapdog Creations said...

It's ALWAYS interesting to see a mixed breed pup grow and see what comes out! Your girls are beauties and I'm looking forward to seeing how they grow and what they show us.

Marjie said...

I think you're right about the girls not being part Beagle. But since they're so darn cute, I think it matters little. And you are clearly enjoying having puppies again; the girls helped soothe your broken heart at the end of last year, so I love them just for that.

ElleC said...

I am bored, and being convinced the puppies are part basset hound, I went searching for evidence to support my opinion. 8-)

Here you go.

Then, to be fair, I went looking for doxies crosses, and I couldn't find any, the known doxie mixes have slightly more snipey (is that a word?) noses.

I really am just bored right now. I should go do something fun like laundry or dishes.

Tammy said...

I agree...something in there. Maybe the pups had different fathers and the owner saw only the Beagle..or maybe he was a mixed Beagle/Doxie or...;-) It is fun to speculate, but in the end it doesn't matter. Although some traits can be breed specific, so it's amusing to see where that comes from. I can tell a Collie's bark from a mile away--they just sound different.

Take care,

kathy b said...

Bruins Fans welcome on my blog!!!! now if we get the CUbs in a World Series there will be Cub discrimination.

A beautiful Pit Bull, and I dont say that often, was DUMPED at our shelter overnight . Just stuck in teh fenced yard. He was sweet and scared. He has a huge lump on his shoulder...
but our vet thinks its a cyst!! not cancer.
I can't believe I thought he was a sweetie!

i see dachshund in your pups feet too!

parlance said...

Yes! As mixed breeds they get to just be who they are without the humans having too many preconceptions. I know what you mean about the long back, though. We bought Penny as a shih-tzu X maltese (ha! ha!) From the first we were told to watch out for her long back. I don't know any shih tzus or maltese that have long back, lol.

Life with Wrigs said...

Bassets share some of those traits as well. It would be fun to run the Wisdom Panel DNA test (or a similar test) to try to ID their breed mix. Whatever they are, they sure are cute. :-)

Susan and Wrigs

Jed and Abby in MerryLand said...

Those photos scream "BASSET" to us. Maybe the owner was just guessing the two most likely breeds he could think of. We're pretty sure Abby has more than boxer and beagle in her. But like you, we feel 'so what?' Turns out both boxers and beagles are excavators, her dominant characteristic. Well, that and her love of food.

Sorry your Bruins lost. Better luck next year.